This was a toolbar which allows athletes to upload their Garmin Forerunner data directly to the web - now the best way to do this is :-)

Tuesday, January 13, 2009

Ode to Hollybar

Hi All

This may well be the last post on this blog... well, the last post about Hollybar itself anyway

I think it's time to move on from Hollybar and to concentrate on - which now has some really, really cool charting and mapping functions :)

For those of you who aren't aware, I talked with Fetch about run saturday last week and he seemed very excited about it and suggested I write a note so he could publicise it... but instead of publicising it, he seems to have spent his time since trying to copy it and today announced his plans for functionality and a prototype... much to everyone's excitement...

Maybe I should have just published the note myself?

Like I say, I guess I learned a lesson...

No sour grapes though - it's obviously a big bad world out there at the moment - obviously a time for "business is business" - so I'll respect the hard competitive approach and get on with some kicking @rse functionality instead - HTFU :)

Besides, is clearly way cool :)


Serioussocialsjov said...

Actually I think it's sad if you can't continue to complement Fetcheveryone. Sir Fetch has a lot of other stuff to look after apart from the analytical tools and data functionality, even though he obviously finds those fun.

I reckon there is plenty of room for both, and with two different access points (Hollybar-style and Fetch direct) surely more members of the community will find ways of doing things that appeal to them?

You are going to keep the lead in the tri community, too, because Fetch is so much a runner's site (and is attracting so many beginner runners too).

And for us data lovers there more time we can spend at the computer the more fun we get out of our runs, however slow

Why not write an article for Fetch about saturdayrun? With its more graphs and its Parkrun stuff? And the easy access to shared routes? Etc?


Slodge said...

Thanks Jonathon

I think it's clear that there was an opportunity to work together, but right now my trust is totally shot.

Note, I'm not criticising Fetch's actions - although I'm also more likely to use Weasel rather than Sir as a prefix... This is business for Fetch - and he's seized his opportunity. I can't criticise his approach when it's the same approach that has produced such a good site over the last few years.

Meanwhile, please don't worry - I'm not planning to stop developing :)

And I am planning on being as detailed and as open with the data as I can :)

But whatever happens next, I do intend to be realistic that if I make anything good then Fetch's instinct is to compete, rather than to coop - so I won't be so naive as to tell him before I tell everyone else next time...

I hope the ultimate winners in this will be the users - if tools and sites compete rather than cooperate, then that might help create a perfect free market... although maybe right now isn't the right time to extol the virtues of capitalism ;)

Thanks again for your comments

I'm off to make data lovers really really happy :)


Serioussocialsjov said...

Hmmm ... I don't know, of course, but surely Fetch can't have suddenly put up a direct upload thingy straight after talking to you? I bet he'd been planning it for ages as item 76½b on his to-do list?

If he'd been looking to seize opportunities in order to shaft someone (you), surely he'd have done it ages ago?

I really hope you'll have a re-think (particularly about what Fetch's motives might or might not have been). One thing is for sure: there are not enough developers out there for the rest of us just to stand by while they get miffed.

What you both need is a pint. Srsly. Together.


Slodge said...

Thanks again Jonathon.

I'm going to keep my head above the shit and move on.

Live and learn - and watch this space ;)

Slodge said...

Hi Jonathan

Following your comments last week and following Fetch saying "Sorry" and telling me he would have acted differently in hindsight, I sent Fetch this email below...

The response I've received is total silence - which I think is a pretty clear answer.

I'm definitely going to draw a line under this now - I am going to continue to develop runsaturday - I have some fabulous new developments under way - and I think my developments will still benefit the Fetch site too - as Fetch has been clear he will try to copy and compete with new things.

On a brighter note, some of the other website operators I've talked with have been absolutely superb in their cooperation - with special thanks to the teams at SportTracks, TriTalk and RunnersForum.

It's a strange old world mainly cos of the people in it ;)



subject: Maybe just an impossible idea....

Hi Ian

I'm still trying to work out how to handle the events of the last week...

RunSaturday wasn't and isn't some big planned project from me - it was more an update to Hollybar which then got side tracked when I discovered charting and mapping... However, there seem to be a few really neat opportunities around at present (unlike in the jobs market!) and so I do intend to have a very good play with some of them... I'm not sure how long I'll stay pushing this forwards... but I do know that (up until Tuesday this week) I was not looking to try to compete with existing Fetch features nor to steal Fetch or RW users away - that was not anywhere in my list of ideas or intentions - I'd even gone out of my way to avoid having simple things like a training log or a general discussion forum.

To put it simply I would still rather work try to work out a way forwards where we were co-operating rather than competing... from my side this could include, for example, promising to try to focus on the US and on cycling and tri, sharing of gps data, sharing of projects in progress, sharing of tools and APIs... I don't know if this is a practical possibility...

I totally respect the fact that you are the much more established site, that you've got a publishing company behind you, that I'm a real minnow who's not even committed to keeping this website going long term - so you are fully in your rights to turn this suggestion down flat.

However... at least I can ask... are you interested in co-operating in any way shape or form? And do you think there is any way we could cooperate? What could you offer to any co-operation? And what ways (if any) could you suggest to reassure each other that we're not going to get shafted while co-operating?



Slodge said...

And now there's a reply!

Maybe the green shoots of recovery will start to show through?

Will keep you posted!

Serioussocialsjov said...

just had a lot on his plate? :-)